Thread: Has our President stumbled?

Has President Obama stumbled with his attack on the Churches? I'm interested in seeing how all this is going to turn out for him. I have an idea it's going to go very badly.

I have heard a little about this subject, all I know is that he had implemented for churches (well church ran places, not actual churches) to also be bound by the birth control act for businesses to provide for their employees. The church did not like this, they don't believe in birth control, fought it, made him change his mind. I do believe he stumbled. I do not think it was an attack on churches. I will say this, if the church is against birth control and wont provide it for their employees/members as other businesses then the church, not government should be the ones supporting all those people who are members of their church that are on government assistance due to having so many kids they cant afford.

I am sure I need to read more on this subject, but this is what I have heard on the news so far.

See the thing is anyone can get birth control if they want it at any drug store. And the thing Obama has done is to have insurance companies pay for abortions. They don't right now.
All Christian churchs are against abortion, except when the pregnancy is harmful to the woman's life.
The Churches in this country provide assistance to 95% of the homeless, hungry and give them money to pay their bills. I think I mentioned this before what the Churches do in their communities.
This is considered charity and Obama wants to control charitable organizations too. Churches hire and employee 1000s of people.

Originally Posted by Draggy

See the thing is anyone can get birth control if they want it at any drug store. And the thing Obama has done is to have insurance companies pay for abortions. They don't right now.
All Christian churchs are against abortion, except when the pregnancy is harmful to the woman's life.
The Churches in this country provide assistance to 95% of the homeless, hungry and give them money to pay their bills. I think I mentioned this before what the Churches do in their communities.
This is considered charity and Obama wants to control charitable organizations too. Churches hire and employee 1000s of people.

I see. Hmm touchy subject if we are talking about abortions. Not sure what my thought is on this yet. I think I lean towards having the insurance companies pay for the abortions. Not necessarily pay for all of it but have it covered like anything else. I have a huge issue with insurance companies and the medical field. One area our country is hurting in where the general public is getting screwed. Much like oil. It is a necessity. A necessity many of us cannot afford. I have a autistic (aspergers, high functionig) son with epilepsy, terrets, OCD, Oppositional defiant disorder, and a few other things. I used to pay for his medical coverage out of pocket, pay insurance and deductible with co-pays. Ran me into high debt. I managed to pay off all the debt, over 20 thou, but lost his insurance. They would not accept him back because of his condition. He is on mediation that is expensive and I had no choice but to go on medical. I barely qualified and I am about to lose it because I make too much money, according to them. Without medical there is no way I can pay for his medical expenses let alone his medications. So yeah I strongly believe in healthcare reform. I do not know if I agree with everything Obama is trying to do.

I understand religious beliefs, I think if it is ran like a business it should adhere to the same standards of a business. Again I strongly need to do more research on this subject so dont shoot me if I sound completely ignorant. At the risk of contradicting myself, I do not think the governrment has any right to tell a business what they can and cannot do, I mean in the sense of forcing them to provide a coverage or a service. I know in the end there will be a loophole to just bill it all to the employees, hence the insurance companies will bill the businesses.

I'm sorry to hear about your son. Is he on welfare? Medicaid? Neither of these should be determined by your income.
I don't even know if my insurance pays for abortions. Probably not but I carry and pay for the same insurance as the congress and senate.
But the thing is if they have insurance companies be made to carry birth control, abortions the premiums are going to go up for everyone, including mine and I need none of those things.
The premiums will go up for employers and you know what happens when employers cost go up? They start laying off people.
And the 1st amendment to the constitution guarantees separation of Church and Government. The government cannot tell Churches what to do, no matter what religion.
Then when he tries to tell Churches what to do, he inturn pushes charities out of business. Whose going to take up the slack?
And the insurance in Obamacare is not free. You have to pay for the coverage and you have to have the insurance, if you don't have insurance or be fined big time.

Originally Posted by Draggy

I'm sorry to hear about your son. Is he on welfare? Medicaid? Neither of these should be determined by your income.
I don't even know if my insurance pays for abortions. Probably not but I carry and pay for the same insurance as the congress and senate.
But the thing is if they have insurance companies be made to carry birth control, abortions the premiums are going to go up for everyone, including mine and I need none of those things.
The premiums will go up for employers and you know what happens when employers cost go up? They start laying off people.
And the 1st amendment to the constitution guarantees separation of Church and Government. The government cannot tell Churches what to do, no matter what religion.
Then when he tries to tell Churches what to do, he inturn pushes charities out of business. Whose going to take up the slack?
And the insurance in Obamacare is not free. You have to pay for the coverage and you have to have the insurance, if you don't have insurance or be fined big time.

We have tried to get him social security, he has been denied 3 times, partly because of my income and the other part because his conditions did not qualify, everytime we get better diagnosis we try. Sad to say my income does come into effect. I do ok but not well enough to pay for all his medical expenses. I like the obama care because under it, he would not be denied coverage, but you are correct, this expense will be passed on to businesses and then to us. A better system needs to be in order, starting with the medical facilities themselves, thats where the charges begin, insurances are businesses and they have to make money, if hospitals and doctors are charging a lot how can they not? Not possible.

I have an issue with this whole seperate church from government policy. Church and government go hand in hand. I say this because our government uses religion everywhere. Our money system, our courts, some of our laws. If they are to be seperate then religion has no business in a court of law or anything else with the government for that matter. The problem is that our country, our world is based off religion, so how can you seperate them. You can't.

Sure our country is here because of religious beliefs. We wouldn't be in this country if not for religion and our forefathers made religious freedom the 1st Ammendment to the Constitution, not the 4th or 5th but the 1st.
So from what you are saying you think our dollar should look different, without God We Trust on the bill? I will partly agree with you on religious signs in court houses.
I'm not quite sure how government policy is based on religion? And I'm not quite sure what you mean by government/religion go together. I hear that a lot but I've never had any one prove to me policy was made by religion. And do they take into account all the religions in America or just one or two.
Do they take a poll of religions and decide from the poll the bills that will pass and those that will not?
See the statement our country is run by religion and politics never makes any sense to me.
Sure Churches of all religions have Charities they fund. Hospitals they run. But what does that have to do with politics. Is it because I generally vote for a person I think is a good man?
And I understand the "no prayer in school" If they allow every religion in America to have a prayer I'm all for it.

Originally Posted by Draggy

Sure our country is here because of religious beliefs. We wouldn't be in this country if not for religion and our forefathers made religious freedom the 1st Ammendment to the Constitution, not the 4th or 5th but the 1st.
So from what you are saying you think our dollar should look different, without God We Trust on the bill? I will partly agree with you on religious signs in court houses.
I'm not quite sure how government policy is based on religion? And I'm not quite sure what you mean by government/religion go together. I hear that a lot but I've never had any one prove to me policy was made by religion. And do they take into account all the religions in America or just one or two.
Do they take a poll of religions and decide from the poll the bills that will pass and those that will not?
See the statement our country is run by religion and politics never makes any sense to me.
Sure Churches of all religions have Charities they fund. Hospitals they run. But what does that have to do with politics. Is it because I generally vote for a person I think is a good man?
And I understand the "no prayer in school" If they allow every religion in America to have a prayer I'm all for it.

I will put it like this. If a person who is non religious runs for president, no matter the color or gender, do you think that person will become president? No. Why because we as people want a religious person in office. Do they not use the bible during the the presidential oath, It is also used when swearing in a person under oath in court (although I think this process has been getting diminished more because of religious beliefs, not sure).

Is marriage not a religious belief? The government has a role in that.

I do not know what religions come into effect with these laws but I believe it all starts with christianity. Some laws get passed by religious beliefs, well maybe at first but then they try to eliminate religion as much as possible. Religion is everywhere and influences government.

We've got a president now that's not all that religious. He never attends Church, never honors the Day of Prayer. And by his actions he doesn't seem to me to be very religious. You know a Chrisitan not by what he says, but by his actions. Ring a bell? :-)
A marriage license is issued by the state, not the federal government. And getting married is a privilege not a right as well as getting a drivers license. And once you have your liscense you can get married anywhere by anyone.
Obama used the Quran during his swearing in ceremony. Not the Bible.

Originally Posted by Draggy

We've got a president now that's not all that religious. He never attends Church, never honors the Day of Prayer. And by his actions he doesn't seem to me to be very religious. You know a Chrisitan not by what he says, but by his actions. Ring a bell? :-)
A marriage license is issued by the state, not the federal government. And getting married is a privilege not a right as well as getting a drivers license. And once you have your liscense you can get married anywhere by anyone.
Obama used the Quran during his swearing in ceremony. Not the Bible.

I did not say you have to actually do as you say, They just have to say they are religious and go through the mumble jumble. There is no specific book that is to be used for the inaguration, its not even a requirement, (i think), but they still use a bible. From the little I researched I believe Obama used the same one the Lincoln used, which no other president has used since lincoln. All other presidents have used other bibles. The point is a right hand is put on a bible.

You are correct in the license thing, but again, u need a license, wether it is state or federally issued, it is still government. Getting married by a church is not enough to be considered married, it means nothing without that license. I believe in another thread we were discussing gay marriages and a lot of the issues with that is because of religion. Religion supposively says only a man and woman should get married, hence licenses are issued to a man and a woman.